The Heartbeat of Business Success | Peter Hernandez

Figure this out, and your business will thrive. In this episode of 'Pay or Quit,' host Shawn Austin Johnson dives deep into the real challenges of business and relationships with special guest Peter Hernandez, founder of mypmh.com. From discussing the importance of culture and relationships in business to navigating the toughest moments as an entrepreneur, this conversation reveals indispensable insights into leadership, mentorship, and maintaining a thriving company culture.

Connect with Peter Hernandez: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peter-hernandez-pmh/
mypmh.com 

Please rate the podcast!

Shawn's Newsletter: https://shawnaustinjohnson.beehiiv.com/

Follow Shawn:
X: https://x.com/shawnAJohnsonX

Website: https://www.shawnaustinjohnson.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@shawnaustinjohnson

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shawnaustinjohnson/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@shawnaustinjohnson

Transcript

 What is your motivation? Most of the time they'll say things like, I like helping others again, surface level. It may say, well, I like freedom, but when you go down the rabbit hole of, well, is freedom really the motivator? Let's just say that now you have all the time in the world. What are you going to do with that?

time. And we start going down those questions. Okay. Let's just say you have freedom. What does freedom look like to you when you start asking those questions actually even help them understand  

 📍  this is the Pay or Quit Podcast.  I'm Shawn Austin Johnson. I went from flying helicopters and drowning in student loan debt to building businesses with multi million dollar exits, becoming a millionaire by 31.  In this podcast I'm breaking down how to create a business that floods you with financial freedom and how to turn those riches into a money making flywheel. Want every tip and trick? Subscribe to my newsletter at ShawnAustinJohnson.

com so you don't miss a beat.  📍  I'm here today with a dear friend, the man, the myth, the legend, Peter Hernandez, who was, has been a CEO of several awesome companies and now is the founder of a company called PMH, who really focuses on the relationship side, the bit of the business with people. And you know, every business is a people business.

So I'm super excited to have you here, Peter, give me, uh, give me the rundown of how you view. Culture and relationships in business. 

First of all, thank you so much for the, uh, for the opportunity for having me. Uh, yeah, you're a great friend and it's been, got the invitation. That felt really excited to, to be a part of this.

Um,  people in relationships, uh, in any organization, I think, are the heartbeat. Um, and I say that, uh, I've used that analogy a couple of times because  you've got,  you know, you've got your three, sometimes four legs of a, of a business depending on how you look at it, but systems, uh, processes,  um, all of course make up the business. 

However, the relationships, uh, play a huge factor and, and really allow for an opportunity for growth within, uh, for the business. So that could be relationships from the organization itself with its clients. That could be relationships between the, uh, owner, operator and its employees.  Uh, it could be relationships between the organization, its vendors or providers, uh, service providers.

So I think,  I think anyone would agree that those relationships, um,  whichever, whichever they are, are vital and important to the, uh, to the organization. Um,  I think they're important.  Because it's,  we've all heard this. It's what is it? Uh, they like you, they respect you and they'll do business with you. I think that's what it is.

Right. And so,  um, of course you don't get to really know someone. You don't really get to like someone or, uh, respect them, uh, unless you get to know them. And so relationships are, I think are a huge, a huge part of, of any organization, any business.  

Yeah. Oftentimes I think, you know, employees feel intimidated by their superiors.

Uh, and it's just, it's almost like just the environment, right? Like that. That environment just fosters that intimidation, if you will, how would, you know, how would you counsel somebody to, to be able to overcome that is as a superior, if you will, like,  it's not about being, you know, the overlord, if you will, of the employee, it's about having a relationship, how would you counsel them to overcome that, uh, maybe that stigmatism that we often see in business?

It's a great question. And I think I would, I would actually probably coach or, or, uh, consult with the, uh, with the owner operator. Uh, if the, if your staff, if your team has, or, or an employee or two has that perception, uh, it could be something that you're doing to give, to give people that perception.  Uh, and so I think I would, would coach the, uh, the owner operator on, uh, how they're going about building relationships with, with their team or staff,  I will caution, or I will say this,  those relationships don't mean you become your employee or your team or your staffs, you know, best friend by, by any means, uh, that's, that's not what the relationship,  what the meaning of building the relationship is, but I would coach that, Uh, owner or operator, depending on,  you know, how involved they are in the day to day.

Uh, I would coach them on getting their team, helping their team, helping their team and their staff to, uh, to see them as a, as, as a support really, uh, more than a, uh, someone there who is there to dictate, uh, or pass, uh, orders. Um, I think when the team,  uh, sees you as, as support, they see you as, as a mentor, they see you as someone that they can come to and, uh, And ask someone that they're willing to learn from.

And so if you think of it that way, if you position yourself to be someone that your employees are willing to learn from or wanting to even wanting to learn from, uh, I think that stigma of, of, well, intimidation, you know, he is the boss, he is the owner. Uh, I don't know if I can just have a open conversation with, with him or her.

I think it goes away. It goes away when you, when you position yourself as. As, um, someone that's there to support and, and someone who's willing and, uh, to offer any, any guidance, any, any education or training. 

Yeah. I view that as like a, a mentorship. A mentor and a mentee relationship. And I, I agree with you.

I think when, when the superior views himself as a mentor, I'm gonna coach this person to be the best they can be. It removes a lot of barriers and oftentimes they, uh, they then don't view their. Their job is transactional. Now it has meaning behind it. Somebody is helping guide me along to be the best version of myself.

And now if that's the case, how do I become the best version of myself? So I'm not only creating value for this company, but my, my superior, the person that has taken interest in caring for me and also, uh, for myself. Right. It's, uh, I mean, that's why people work. We're there to, uh,  first and foremost, provide a living for ourselves.

Um, but oftentimes I think when those mentors, uh, view it as something bigger than themselves and bigger than the company themselves on how to wait. cultivate somebody. Um, you often see those barriers drop.  📍   Hey, if you're loving this episode so far, if you want to watch it unfold instead of just listening, you're in luck. This exact episode is live on YouTube right now. Head over to our channel, search for Pay or Quit, and catch all the action visually. Alright, let's get back to it.  📍  

 I agree. Uh, it reminds me of a podcast I was listening to this morning. It's called a think fast, uh, talk smart.

It was, uh, they brought up a point about the, the environment within, within any business. Uh, if, if as an employer, uh, owner operator, if you start losing that sense of, Your employees wanting to come to you to learn,  uh, then you, you are, um, you're failing in the relationship building part of things. Um,  because I think we do it, we just do it naturally.

Uh, I know I've picked up the phone and texted you a couple of times, you know, to ask you, you know, for some suggestions, some guidance, some direction. I think we do that naturally with our friends. I think we do that naturally with the people that we feel close to. So  it's no different in the business.

And that was the point of that podcast is Uh, if you position yourself, if you create that environment where, where your, your team knows that they can come to you and feel like you're gonna, they're gonna gain something, they're gonna gain knowledge, they're gonna learn something new, uh, then you've, you've done a good job of creating relationships.

On the other hand, if you don't and your employees. May not even see you as a source of, of knowledge, uh, then there's definitely an opportunity for, uh, to keep building those relations. 

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, as you, as you've, you know, been in some, some high caliber leadership roles, um, you say, for instance, you know,  don't, you know, there's that relationship that doesn't have that mentor, mentor, a mentee relationship, if you will.

What are some like first steps somebody can take to really shift the wind, if you will, on, on gaining that different relationship that they, they should have.  

So, um, maybe from the, uh, from the owner or operator perspective. Sure. 

Yeah.  

Okay. So that's a good question. And I think it's important to.  to understand or to get to know what motivates your team.

I am a firm believer that it's not, it's not always money.  It's not always money that motivates people. And so getting to understand and getting to know what motivates your team uh, is a great way to,  you know, go in the right direction of, of building that relationship with your, with your staff. Um,  I've been  working with a couple of companies and I've gotten to really understand how most people, and this is why I say that money is not the, it's not always the motivator.

Um, people will leave. Um,  because  of maybe lack of structure, lack of organization, uh, other things that frustrate them. And it's not always directly associated with money.  And that that's very, we've, we've kind of find out that it's very true because on the other hand, people will stay, it's, it's, it's interesting.

It's almost like twofold. People will stay. If. Even if they're offered more money,  if  they have the right structure, if they have, if they feel like they, they, they have, they have contribution to the bigger picture, uh, people will hang out, uh, hang around and not take more money or the other offer because now they, they are a part of.

You know, it's a word that you and I were talking about earlier. It's a word that maybe gets used a lot and maybe in different ways, but now they're a part of a culture.  Uh, they're a part of a team.  And so it's really interesting that, uh, when you get to know your team, when you get to know your, your, your employees.

And you understand what motivates them. That's I think the first step in understanding or being able to again, create those, those relationships. So motivation is important. Um, and if you can again, this is not, we're not talking about becoming best friends with your, with your team or employees, but If you're able to also understand why,  why  that motivates them, that's also a huge, a huge, um, a step in the right direction because as you, as you and I know,  if you know what motivates you, it's great,  but we all have to understand in order to, in order to know what motivates us, we, we got to start with the why, right?

And you know that, right? So, uh, whatever it is, yeah. Why is that the motivation? And so that the why really becomes a true, the true reason, a true answer for, you know, why any, any one of us is motivated. So I think those two things, if you're able to really dial into that, what motivates my, my team or each one of my employees and, and why. 

Um, then again, uh, it creates a relationship is you're able to go to that employee, you're able to go to your team every so often and ask them, you know, how things are going, uh, in their goals, how things are going and achieving, you know, uh, what it is that motivates them. So that's definitely 22 steps that I, that I always. 

bring up when I'm, when I'm coaching some of the operators or owners. 

Yeah. How do you, how do you distill down what motivates somebody?  

Oh, that's a great question. So, uh, it's funny cause the first answer is usually never the right answer. It's never, I shouldn't see the right. It's never the true answer.

It's the surface answer.  It's a surface answer. Exactly. Right? So you ask someone, okay, what is your motivation?  And, uh, most of the time they'll, they'll say things like, well, I like helping others.  Okay. That's  again, surface level. They may say, well, I like freedom.  Okay. Freedom. Uh, but when you, uh, when you go down the rabbit hole of, of, well, is freedom really the, the motivator? 

Let's just say that now you have all the time in the world.  What are you going to do with that time? And we start going down those questions. Okay, let's just say you have freedom. What does freedom look like to you?  And, um, they could say, well, I'd like to be able to maybe just work 3 days a week. Okay. So freedom represents not working 2 days a week.

So what are you going to do with those 2 days?  When you start asking those questions, you really get to, uh, you help actually even help them understand what it is that motivates them.  Uh, you say freedom of time. Is that mean you're going to lay in bed for two days because you don't have anything to do?

Well, no, it usually gets substituted. It means being able to now use your time and things that you enjoy and that you like.  At the end of the day, it probably comes down to, um, in that example of freedom, it may come down to, um, wanting to maybe spend more time with family,  uh, maybe travel more, uh, et cetera.

Right. And so,  uh, having those conversations.  And I get it. It's, it's not something that an owner or an operator has, you know,  all day. Right. Uh, to, to just walk around the office and talk to each one of the employees and say, Hey, so what motivates you? What, what is it that, you know, the owner doesn't have the time to do that?

Operator doesn't have the time to do.  So it's, that's why I think it's, it's crucial. And you're seeing it more and more. You're seeing it.  Uh, the, the chief people dog just went and laid back to chief people, officer position come up a lot more. I don't know if you're, if you're seeing it, right. And so chief experience 

officer or whatever, chief experience officer 

as well.

Yeah. 

And so  one thing that I'll say is that, uh, a chief people officer is not your HR. That's, that's, that's not who, who is now going to wear both hats. You got someone that's doing, taking care of HR. Or if you're outsourcing HR, they are not your chief people officer,  right?  This, this position, this, this, that we're hearing a lot more is, is who these organizations are hiring to really take a, you know, a deeper dive into the relationships, the motivations, the expectations.

Uh, the, the coaching, how do you help? You've got the right person.  They may need some help. How do you make sure that they're getting the right training consistently? Uh, how do you, how do you make sure that their expectations are always clear?  Uh, so again, I understand that, uh, owners or operators, you know, don't have all the time in the, in, in the day to just go and, and have these conversations all the time.

But that's why I think you're seeing a lot of more, a lot more of these, uh, of these positions. Um, creative, I think very creative, uh, titles, uh, come up more and more in different organizations. 

Yeah. I see it as a, uh, a market, uh, condition, if you will, that, you know, the jobs market is tight and to get in retain top talent, uh, has, has become tougher and tougher. 

If I, if I'm going to get, if I'm going to put all these resources into training and getting some money on board with my vision, my company culture, uh, on how we do business, then I want them to stay right. And then I don't want them to stay only. I want them to thrive in the business. And how, how does this, if this person is thriving in the business, then it gets rid of so many, uh, Issues like complacency,  uh, not being comfortable, yeah, 

absolutely.

And it benefits, uh, so think of it, think of this, uh, recent research shows that 70 percent of people that leave, uh, their, their job  do not communicate the true reason why they're leaving until the exit interview. And it's too late then, okay.  It's too late. It's very, it's, it's, yeah, it's very late. So if 70 percent of people that are doing that,  then  here's a, the bigger question is how long have they been feeling that way and not, not being able to produce, uh, to the best of their ability. 

How,  maybe the, the most, the more honest question is how long, how long ago did he really quit on you?  They may have quit six months ago or 12 months ago.  Right. And so if, if no one is finding out, if no one is having, uh, evaluations and no one's having, you know, the, um, a plan for, for, uh,  to help someone.

achieve KPIs or hit goals. These conversations aren't having are taking place, you know, actively. Um, then,  you know, I, I, I, I say it like this shame on the employer and not shame on the employee. 

Totally 

right. And so  70 percent of, of, of people leaving their jobs are again, aren't communicating or aren't letting telling anyone why they're leaving until the exit interview.

Problem number one. Another problem is What if you don't even have exit interviews?  What if you don't, that's not even part of your practice? Well, people are leaving  and  human tendency is to, to, to  say that people leave for two reasons. Well, they got a better offer and sometimes that's the case.  Other reason that people always say that people leave is, well, they just weren't the right person for the job. 

That also could be true,  but if people are leaving, and it may not be the same position.  I think I told you this a couple of weeks ago. There was a person that I talked to and said that had gone through about 40 something employees in 2024.  You can only say it's not the right person so many times because at some point  you've got to look at, well, who keeps hiring the wrong person?

Um,  Right. And that's you. So a lot of things, a lot, a lot of conversation around that. A lot of conversation around exit interviews. You know, if you're having them, great. Um, but what are you doing? That's, you know, at that point, you said it's like you said, it's too late, right? So anything that you do is reactive. 

Um, another thing is when you, when you aren't having these conversations,  when you're not having these evaluations, when you're not having these, you know, these plans in place to help build your team. Another thing that happens is you lose somebody. And studies show that on average, it takes you about three months to replace that person if, if you're lucky  three months.

So imagine that someone leaves in any position, depending on the size of the organization, that could mean that you as an owner and operator now has to jump back in the trenches. For a while.  And so when are you, when are you posting the, for, for a job? When are you interviewing? When are you sorting through resumes?

When are you, you know, conducting any kind of phone interviews or in person interviews? It's, it's probably the last thing that you're doing because now you're in the day to day again. Right? And so, uh,  three months is, is what they, what they say on average is what it takes to replace someone. So think of not just the time, the resources, your time. 

You know, the money spent and so,  uh, relationships are super important and being able to get in front of those things, uh, before, before it's too late. 

Yeah. And I always used to say that, uh, the most expensive employee you have is the one that's silent quitting, um, because what they're not, not articulating or communicating is that they are going to quit, but they are silent quitting.

And so their interactions with other staff is not. Uh up to par their interaction with customers and clients is not good. Their attention to detail is gone Because they really don't care at that point. They're looking for something new, right? So you got to get in front of the silent quitting before the quitting, you know  Because it it is costly and uh, and the business will suffer because of it 

Absolutely.

You said something that, uh, that I, I talked to every one of my clients about is, um, if you are trying to improve your client or your customer experience  that is directly associated with what you are doing  with your team.  It's directly associated with not how much you pay your employee,  it's directly related with how, um,  you know, how your employee views, you know what they get to do for the organization every day. 

Are they, do they feel like they are a contributor? Uh, do they feel like they play an important part in the overall success and even mission of the organization?  And so it's, uh, when you, when you have those conversations, when you, when you, um, When you make sure that they feel, uh, that they are a part of, uh, those daily, weekly, monthly meetings, when they feel like they can come to you with, with ideas and those ideas are heard, um, then they, they feel like they're a part of the organization, right?

They feel like they are a part of, uh, of, uh, what you're trying to do, uh, you know, as a, as a, as a company,  more importantly,  your business thrives,  right? Because.  You know, I not gonna, I'm not going to name any names, but there's a very famous, I don't know if it's even a fast food franchise or not. It's, it's, it's a, it's a franchise.

That's not open on Sundays. Let me put it to you. That way 

it 

down for you. Right?  You know, think of that franchise. And I think anyone, I don't know. I mean, there's always going to be someone that's a little disgruntled about something. Right. But I think most people that you talk to will tell you that, that the level of customer service within that franchise is just amazing. 

Is it because those, those, those kids, or is it because those employees  have a six, you know, a six figure salary? Absolutely not.  So why is it that those, those organizations, why is it that those and other organizations similar to, to those, why do they excel when it comes to the client experience? 

People matter.

That's where, yeah,  you take a deeper dive with, with these, with these organizations to look at, you know, again, the culture, the core values. Yeah. Uh, and lots of other things, because all of that has a huge impact on your, your overall business.  

My pleasure.  

Exactly.  

No, I, you know, you're, you're saying it. I mean, you think, uh, at the root of a, of a company that has a culture like that, they understand that business on the, on the foundational level level is not just transactional, it is relational and how people.

View each other. I always like, I go to, you know, you go to another fast food place and, and instead of saying, what else can I do for you today, they say,  is that all? Is that all? I mean, that simple, is that all three words ruins the experience. What a huge difference. Instead of saying, what else can I do for you?

Massive. It's what we communicate. It's what we, what we say. So it's what we say as leaders, as an owner and operator. trickles down.  Uh, that made me think of this is just a, this is just a, um,  what do you call that? It's just something that bugs me personally. Um, pet peeve. There you go. So, you know, when you do something and you say, thank you, I don't know.

I'm from Texas. I just grew up. You say, thank you. You say, you're welcome. You know, you open the door, you know, those kinds of things. But nowadays you, you say, thank you to someone and more, you know, more. Times and not, you hear the person say, no problem. 

Maybe they, maybe they feel that no problem is the same thing as, as you're welcome, but it's not  right. Those two words, right? No problem.  It means you kind of inconvenience me, but I'm okay with that.  Right. And so, uh, so yeah, I think of, you know, you're welcome. It's a whole different message. So you're absolutely right.

Those two, three words, how people carry themselves, how people speak, how people conduct themselves, how they represent your organization  is a, is a, is not just a reflection of, of the owner or, or operator, but it's, it's again, it's, it's the overall success of the business.  

Yeah, for sure. How do you, how do you kind of view, uh, when leadership is vulnerable,  uh, and, and should they be vulnerable and what does that do to the strength of, or weakness of a relationship?

I think owners or leadership, uh, can become very vulnerable. And, um, and that's where, depending on the structure of the organization, that's where, you know, um, making sure that leadership also has continuous education and continuous training is important.  Um,  leadership can expose themselves or become very vulnerable, if you will, when, when they themselves, um, aren't doing something to keep improving their leadership skills. 

Uh, and,  you know, there's a lot of, I'm going to call it a lot of excuses for that. Uh, and most of the time it could be, you know, the most often answer is I don't have time.  Right?  A leader will continue to educate themselves to, you know, go and look for knowledge. Um, independently.  It's not something that a true leader will not wait until it's something that is expected from the organization. 

A true leader is not going to wait for. You know, the owner, uh, or the, the C suite team to come down and say, you know, Hey, I need you to take this course. I need you to read this book. I need you to listen to this podcast because I think it would really help you in your overall role. Um, true leaders will look for that knowledge, uh, on their own.

And so they can, uh, become vulnerable when, when they don't, when they stop seeking knowledge. Um, when they stop seeking knowledge, then it almost becomes like, um, you know, I don't know if this is.  You know, the right analogy or not, but it's almost like when a parent tells a kid, I need you to do this, you know, but they don't do it and the kid might turn around and say, well, why should I do it if you don't do it?

Right? 

Right. So they, they, that, that vulnerability is definitely a concern, but that's again, it's, it's how, how is it, what, what is, what are the practices as an organization? You know, how often are they coming together? Is it quarterly? Is it once a year, twice a year, uh, to make sure that everyone is,  Is rising at the same pace. 

Yeah. And I, and you know, the flip side of that, I see, uh, the vulnerability can be a strength too, when a leader or a company makes a mistake and they own up to it and says, you know, we screwed up here. Um, we, we could have handled that differently. I think that actually strengthens, uh, the relationship with the staff a lot of times.

So I think it could be viewed both ways. Um, personally, um, but. But 

I agree. I agree. In that example, I think it's you're, you're, you're exactly right, because I guess what mistakes are going to happen, right? And so when, when now, uh, so an employee makes a mistake, uh, then,  you know, they will, they will  probably bring it up, you know, present it and say, Hey, this happened.

Uh, now I know that I could have handled it better, or I wasn't sure how to, how to handle it. Right. And so that's where again, it allows for, um, that relationship between employees and, and, and leadership team to be, be, um, something that they're comfortable to  dialogue about. 

Yeah. Yeah. Not be afraid. Well, I think a lot of times, you know, employees, if there isn't a good relationship, um, often want to hide it.

Cause they're afraid that they might get chastised or disciplined off of the mistake. And the reality is people are people, right? We're going to make mistakes when we make a mistake. It's how we then, uh, you know, react to the oops, uh, instead of hiding it or whatever, uh, coming forth with, you know, I made a mistake and this is what it caused.

Um, this is what I learned from it. This is how I'll handle it going forward. Uh, and I think that goes a long ways when leadership also takes that kind of approach where. Yeah, I screwed up or like for instance when I was a ceo, um, and uh of home vault and uh, You know, we made a we made a big decision to go this direction and it soon became apparent That wasn't the right decision and I got a all hands on meeting with the staff and I said, hey guys We I made a mistake.

We went down the wrong path here and we thought it was the risk worst Taking, and it ended up not being the right direction. Uh, but we're going to shift gears and go this direction because we now see that, uh, that opportunity wasn't, um, it didn't work out like we planned. And I think it's straightened, you know, overall, at least from my perspective, it strengthened the company culture when, when a CEO can be.

Vulnerable. 

Absolutely.  Absolutely. And I think rather than looking at, you know, and it's hard to do, I, I really do understand that it's hard to do, but looking at any of those  mistakes, errors or whatever you want to call them, looking at those things as opportunities  at that very moment is sometimes difficult to do. 

But they really are an opportunity and this is where, again, leadership, how does leadership handle those opportunities? Leadership makes a mistake. They own it. Uh, it builds that trust between employees and leadership.  Uh, the flip side,  if it's the, uh, the employee that made the mistake  again, it's a, it's, it's an opportunity.

Right. And I think if, if, if viewed more from that light, I think it would, uh, it would definitely help, um, you know, help in your overall success. You don't want less than that. You want is mistakes happening and no one's saying anything until it's too late.  

How do you view, you know, as we see. The business environment changing with more process, more automation, more AI in everything that we do.

What, how do you envision like the company culture and the employee employer relationship? 

Yeah, I don't, I, it's interesting, uh, especially with the whole, what, you know, all the talk about AI. Um, I can, I could, I could see, um, I could see the landscape changing, um, to a more. Uh, more technical, um,  the approach when it comes to maybe training employees, uh, when it comes to, and I, and I know there's been, there's, there's been for some time, uh, some, some directive like that, uh, there could be, um, every periodic, um, quizzes that come up through different organizations that they require that their employees take. 

But I think it'll be, it could probably transition. Um, and I think it could be a, it could be harmful in a sense, transition to a fully, uh, just tech, uh, or AI, uh, support, um, way of training, um,  and, and even, uh, and even hiring or, or developing, uh, staff. So I think that's, that's a possibility. Uh, I think AI and, and a lot of, uh, tech is, is a great support.

Uh, for everything that involves, you know, the hiring and the training and developing.  Uh, but that's why my favorite phase is, is it's still a people business, right? And I'm a firm, uh, believer. I'm a big fan of Marcus Limones and his philosophy is, you know, people process product. Um, and so he always says that you have the right people, you train the people. 

You give the people everything that they need to be successful. Uh, you develop the right process, then you'll have an excellent product.  But the foundation of any organization is going to be, it's going to be people.  So I could see how, you know, A. I. and tech and some of those things are going to Are definitely going to impact, uh, that side of, of any business, but the, the people element is, I don't think it's ever gonna just, just go away.

Uh, I was talking to somebody about that the other day and they said,  you know, things are just very convenient because of technology. And I mean, we all love it. We all use it, right? Whether it's DoorDash, whether it's, you know, any, you know, Uber, anything like that. Right.  Technology has, has definitely raised, uh, the experience and the expectations.

But I, I, I use a small example. It may have not been the best one, but he was asking me about AI and how that thing, how that was going to change the landscape.  Uh, I said, I asked him when's the last time he went to, to the movies theater. He said, it's been, you know, it's been a little while. I said, how did you purchase your tickets? 

And, uh, you know, he said, well, I was on the phone, did the mobile app and I purchased my movie tickets that way, got to the theater, scanned it and walked in, didn't have to deal with any lines or anything like that. I said, absolutely. That's, and that's the purpose, right? Makes it convenient, makes it easy.  I said, now you probably watched the trailer to the movie and he said, yeah, that's why I went to go watch it.

I said, perfect. Okay.  When you purchased a ticket, you scanned, you purchase it on your mobile phone. You did all that. You went about your way.  Remember back in the old days, you would go to the booth to the window, walk up, right? You know, usually back to the culture, back to customer service, back to client facing, there was someone there and you would hope that they, you know, after you told them how many tickets you wanted and what movie you're going to watch.

If they, they've already seen the movie, sometimes they'd say, Oh, you're going to like it. It's a really good movie.  That's something that you're not getting when you're purchasing your, your tickets on your phone or an app or anything like that. Now I get it. Not everyone wants that experience,  but there's still a big number of people who that simple, that little, that small conversation, if someone were to say, you're going to love that movie, it's been, it's one of my favorites.

I just watched it last week. That just immediately changes. Your point of view, your perspective, your expectations when you walk into that theater. 

Yeah. Yeah, it's, you know, a lot of things have removed that human element. Unfortunately, it's, uh, it's too bad. But, you know, as I look at, uh, you know, building or having a relationship with your staff and having that, uh.

You know, that culture within the business, they're often becomes, um, a balance between the structure and the flexibility of the relationship. Um, you know, I always thought, and I think this is true is when I have a relationship with my team.  Beyond just the transactional like here's the job to do here's the expectations and I expect them to be done I always felt like I can ask more because we have a relationship deeper than just you know You come to work and you clock out at the end of the day So how would you like really advise on how do you balance the structure versus the flexibility that is gained?

from having this, you know a tighter relationship if you will from your  

It's a great question. And yes, you do have to balance it. Uh, there's got to be, uh, there has to be boundaries. Absolutely. There has to be. Um, but it's no different from when it's done correctly. It's no different from knowing that you have a helper if you will.

Right? So that person may be your immediate supervisor. Your manager could be the owner of the company. Uh, but  It's if you create the right relationship to where, you know, you have someone that is there to help you,  uh, you also create respect in a sense of,  okay, I can go to that person, ask for some help, but you're not going to abuse, abuse that help.

And what I mean by that is  the mentality can sometimes be well, if I hired someone to do something and they're coming to me to ask, then why did I even hire them? Maybe I should just do it.  Well, again, it's, it's, that's, that's a negative way of, of, of thinking or looking at it, right? Yeah. If someone isn't qualified, you know, then there's some decisions to make.

But if someone's coming to you and asking for direction, asking for guidance, look at it as an opportunity,  or would you rather them not come to you and then deal with the consequences,  right? And so there's a fine balance.  So when they, when you create that,  that right space of knowing that they, they have someone that they can go to a helper, like I said, then I think that's the right approach.

Um, because that, that also. Uh, keeps boundaries, uh, that also allow us for the serious conversations that sometimes have to take place to happen, uh, when they need to happen.  

Yeah. Let's shift gears just a little bit. Um, what has been your darkest moment as you, that you faced as an entrepreneur? I love asking this question, by the way. 

Yeah. Oh man.  It's not always roses and 

butterflies, is it?  

No, no, it's, no, it, the idea, the, the, the, uh,  uh, the concept, uh, is, is roses and butterflies. Right. But then you get in, you go down the road, start going down the road and you realize, yeah, darkest moments is probably, um, you know, so I'm a big fan of shark tank, a big fan of the profit.

Uh, and so I watch those things a lot. Uh, if, if, if you ever, if I'm ever at a conference and I'm back in my room, that's exactly what I'm watching.  I, um,  darkest moment is probably when, when you ask yourself and it's not doubting it was for me. It wasn't doubting, um, you know, inability. It wasn't doubting, uh, you know, my confidence or anything like that.

It was. More of  doubting whether you had created and here's a question. I think anyone at some point you should ask yourself, you should ask yourself is, did I create something that is a solution to a problem or is it, uh, did I create something that do I need to create the problem to present my solution?

Right. And so that makes sense. It's. It's understanding of understanding whether you know, sometimes you think, am I, am I a little too early or am I a little too late, you know, with, with what I'm trying to do? Uh, and so  doubting, uh, maybe the direction that the, uh, that you should take the product and is sometimes. 

Yeah, that's probably, you know, that doubt because, you know, all kinds of questions come to mind after that. It's like, well, you know, should I've, you start maybe second guessing some decisions. 

Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. I think we all naturally go through that. And, you know, I don't know, uh, who coined it, but there's like this phases of evaluating an opportunity.

And at first you're like super awesome, optimistic. And then you're like,  You know a little bit pessimistic and then you get into the valley of despair and you're like This is the dumbest idea like this is horrible And then if you that's where most people quit by the way, they quit and then they go back to the first phase optimism on a new idea and they go through it again and they go to valley despair and never push through and They just keep that it's the start something new today start something new tomorrow and repeat instead of how do I push through the valley of despair and get through the now i'm Um, uh, pessimistic, pessimistically optimistic about it.

And then it's success. If I could push through those two phases, then it becomes successful. Uh, most people never see that cause they give up and they're like, Oh, it sucks being in the valley of despair. That's what I heard you say when you're, you're thinking through like the, the hardest moment you've had so far as a,  as an entrepreneur, I think we all go through that really, uh, you know, this.

It's easy.  

Exactly. And I love the way you, you, you phrased it, but you know, I'll tell you, I'll tell you what though. Uh, I am very fortunate, very, very fortunate to have. Um,  a close, you know, close group of friends, small group, close group of friends that, that I, um, and, and I, I was talking, I was having this conversation with one of them, uh, must've been yesterday, I think.

And I refer to these, they're, they're my friends, they're personal friends and they're, they're not just colleagues, but they're friends and I, and I love them. Uh, but I was telling one of them yesterday, I said, I, I surround myself with what, who I call big thinkers.  And, um, especially in those moments, especially in the moments where you start kind of maybe doubting,  uh, questioning, uh, or, uh, you just, uh,  you know, quite honestly may not even know the, uh, the answer like, okay, shoot, what do I do now?

Right? Um, so I call these big thinkers and here's why these, this group of friends, they'll never tell you they'll, you don't go to these friends because that, you know, they're going to tell you what you want to hear. Otherwise it just wouldn't be good friends. Right. Uh,  but this is what they all have in common is that  they will listen  and then they will  say, you know what?

That's, that's not a bad idea.  Have you considered this?  Uh, have you thought of this?  Or what do you think of maybe going in this direction?  And so,  uh, what I mean by that is you can have another group of friends who you explain the exact same situation to, and they may say, Okay. Yeah, that doesn't sound like it's going to work, man.

I would just, I would just trash that.  But the big thinkers, they see every one of these obstacles as an opportunity. Well, wait a minute. Okay. Well, maybe you're at a roadblock, but what if you turned left?  And that opens up this bigger opportunity. So those big thinkers, I love those. I love my friends, that small group.

They just, that's, that's who I surround myself with, especially.  And those moments of, you know, doubt or, or, you know, when you start questioning myself, 

yeah, yeah. We definitely all go through those. And it's interesting, the people that, uh, are around us that have never done it, whatever the, it is typically, uh, that's the feedback you get from them is like, Oh, don't do that.

But the ones that are like successful and have been there, done that, they just give you like guidance on, Oh, have you thought of it this way? Or, you know, I think you've, you're onto something here, but maybe just, you know, just nudge it a little bit and massage it in. out. I, that's exactly how I found it.

The, the people in my, my circle that, uh, uh, are not driven or maybe even successful in a business standpoint. They'll, you know, if you throw them an idea, they're going to tell you every reason why it's not going to work. 

Exactly. So  it goes, it goes back to your relationships, right? So I've got friends who I wouldn't have those conversations with because, you know, I know that that's not the right audience.

Right. But then,  and so, yeah, that's been super helpful. Uh, as you probably know, you know, I think they always say that just taking that leap as an entrepreneur is the one thing that most people never do. 

They 

have all these ideas, they have all these dreams and they say, Oh, I bet if I did this, but they don't, they don't jump off the cliff. 

And so that's, um, You know, that was,  you know, just a little bit of, uh, you know, not, not to, not to go back, but that was my, my, my thing for a long time. It was, I was working for, I was a part of these great organizations. And fortunate enough to where three of them were basically startups  and so went from being startup, you know, uh, companies to, to now being, you know, national, national companies.

And so I read this book and I think I've posted, I think I posted somewhere about this. I read a post where it said,  you can, you can either bill go out and build your own dreams or someone will hire you to build theirs.  When I read that quote, or when I read that.  That was for me, and I, I think I'll forever say this, that was for me the moment when I was like,  Bing, the light bulb went off  because I had, I had gone, you know, in a great, and no regrets,  the experience behind that, the knowledge that I've, you know, everything that I've learned has helped me now, uh, but it was time to build my own dreams. 

Yeah, I love that. I love that. I think so often, uh, even as. Entrepreneurs, business owners have taken that leap of faith to build their own dreams. We then utilize the business to just be the J O B the job and forget about the opportunities the business actually is affording us, but we have to seize the opportunities.

Otherwise they just become. Uh, a drift, uh, you know, a drifter in it, if you will. So I love that you'd mentioned that. That's a cool saying. You're either going to bring it or build it for somebody else or yourself. I fact,  

yeah, true state, especially when you think about it, like. You know, okay, there's some of these things involved, like having a, you know, a nice leadership position, C suite position, great title, you know, great money, but at the end of the day, you know, and that's exactly what that quote said.

You're building someone else's dreams. So true. So it was, uh. Not, not for everyone, but it was a time. 

Totally. Yeah. And so one thing I, you know, is, is we've become friends, real close friends over the years. One thing I view you as Peter is somebody that has this talent for bringing other people together.

Um, and you know, as I see this new venture, uh, that you're embarking on, I love it because like you have this ability to bring on top notch speakers. You have some events coming up that I love for you to share, like. What really inspired you to bring this together? Why? And how does it actually impact, um, the marketplace?

Yeah. Uh, thank you for asking that. Uh, so you're, you, you, you said it now I've had other friends, uh, and, and, and, you know, and peers tell me, describe me that way. Uh, they've even said, you know, you're a connector is what they've, what they've said. Uh, I,  aside from, from consulting, aside from, from working with, with organizations to, to help them, you know, with their growth or revenue profitability, uh, and their, their staff, um, aside from that, I wanted to create an environment where, or events really, where, where we, I could bring, as I'm, as I'm working with these, these organizations and, and their owners or operators.

And, um, they may have been in the business, uh, longer and I have, uh, so I wanted to create an environment or events where I could bring these, some of these owners together,  uh, because  they may be experiencing challenges that someone else experienced, you know, five years ago or three years ago. Um, and so rather than  whatever the, whatever the business, uh, is that I'm working with, um, there's no better.

I feel that there's no better, there's no better solution than to bringing, you know, folks that are, that are running the same race, if you will, they're running the same race, not from a business, you know, one on one perspective, but from, you know, when you get into the weeds, right, so let's just say property management, for example, you know, what is, what is a lease involved?

What does maintenance involved? What does, what is You know, what does, um, business development within, you know, property management, what does that involve? Uh, so when you bring operators or owners that are running that, they're running down that same road, uh, together. Uh, I, for me, it's, it's, it's a feeling of success because I get to watch, I get to be a part of.

Uh, seeing them, uh, not just contribute, have great dialogue and bring, bring forth, uh, some, you know, some great help for each other. Uh, but I really just enjoy the, the part of being able to, um, to create that environment for them. If, if, you know, if that makes any sense. 

Oh, it makes total sense. Yeah. I mean, I, I see like when.

When you have driven people in the same room or at the same event, there's something super contagious about it. Um, it's interesting, you know, as all of the conferences I've been to, there's that subset, that minority subset that is the ones that go to the conference and then execute what they learned.

And if those, those folks start to gravitate towards each other. Other and they throw ideas off each other. It's it's that contagious nature That's what I love about what you you know What you're putting together on these events that you got top notch speakers who are those implementers that go and make things happen Um, the people that attend it now Attend it naturally want Uh, to be in that environment, you know, cause it drives them forward.

So kudos. I'm excited to see these. Can you kind of tell us some details on what you got going on? Yeah, 

absolutely. So yeah, Oh, absolutely. And so, um, got a couple of them coming up, uh, we've got four events coming up in, in, in, in, you know, 2025. First one will be in March in Arizona. That is a, that is a mastermind group.

Again, we're keeping, keeping these very, very small, very exclusive because we want to make sure that we create the right dynamics and environment, uh, so that, you know, great dialogue can, can take place a great discussion. So, uh, March. Uh, Phoenix, Arizona, uh, we're doing, there was so many applications that came through for that one that we're, we're putting together a second event, uh, also in, in Phoenix, that'll be, uh, the first one will be a three day mastermind event.

This, the second one will be a one day workshop. Uh, and so that one's already, um,  that's a lot of great reception for that one as well. Uh, then June we'll be putting on a one day mass, a one day workshop. Uh, here in, in Austin, Texas, that's going to be our third event of the year, uh, very specific to profitability, very specific to, uh, maintenance and, um, and business development within the, within the, um, the property management space. 

And then our last one for the year, that one actually, we just, we literally just, just finalized the arrangements and everything for that one earlier this morning,  uh, that'll be in November. Uh, November 10th through the 13th, and this will be a an international, uh, mastermind event. And what we're doing with this one is we're being very, very, uh, um,  uh, selective with the, uh, the entrepreneurs that we bring along for this one.

Uh, we, we want to make sure that we provide. You know, the, the, the drive, the knowledge, the experience so that they really, you know, the folks that attend this one, uh, again, walk away with, uh, you know, not just create a relationship at the event, but walk away with maybe a different perspective. Uh, whether it's in property management or outside of property management, because I'm a firm believer of,  you know, every business can be a business.

It's just a different product. Right. But, you know, the, the, the, the basis is still the same. And so we're bringing, bringing together some, some great entrepreneurs for, for this last one. This will be. November 10th to the 13th, and it'll be in, uh, in Argentina, 

Patagonia, baby. 

Yes. So we're really, really looking forward to, like I said, we just finalized all the arrangements this morning.

Uh, got a great, nice launch. So we're going to combine, uh, some, some entertainment with it as well. We're going to have a little fun, so it'll be a, a, a dove hunt in Argentina.  And we're really excited about this one. We've gotten a lot of great reception for it. And I think that will be one that will become very popular and ongoing.

So, um, Brad Larson and myself, uh, are, uh,  have a partner up to, uh, to put this this last event of the year together. Uh, it's only open to 15 entrepreneurs and there is 

no, it's only 10 now, remember?  

That's right. It was 15. Now we're down to, I think we've, we've sold, uh, or people we've got, uh,  maybe five or six seats left, I think.

Uh, but it's a very, it's all inclusive. It's a great, beautiful lodge in, uh, in Argentina,  out in the country. Uh, great hunting, but most of all, very excited for the, uh, the great conversations that I know will take place around, around the fireplace in the evenings.  Some of the stuff that we're doing. 

I love that.

I think, you know, one thing I've said on this podcast several times is whatever industry you are in, whatever business industry you are in, look outside of it because there are other industries, other niches, if you will, that. Uh, just do things exceptionally well, different, and it's so good to look at those.

And I think these type of events just gives us the opportunity to rub shoulders with those folks that are thinking differently, have, have done it differently. And it's not that they're, you know, extremely innovative, that just have been a different space and their decisions took them down a different path that, that led them to, uh, a different opportunity, if you will, or a way of doing things.

So it's super, super exciting. I'm excited to see how that goes. And, uh. 

I'm excited that you're going to be a, uh, that you're going to be a part of it. Uh, you and Kristen, we, we, we are very excited about that.  Yeah, exactly.  You probably haven't, you probably haven't asked her, but you know, I'm excited that you guys will be there.

Uh, it's, uh, the, the group, the lineup so far, uh, that have signed up for this thing is just. It's just amazing. And I think, uh, again, it won't just be a good time. It will be a, just a lot of great learning experience, great knowledge. I mean, this is a tank of very, uh, very knowledgeable entrepreneurs that we're putting together.

Yeah, that's phenomenal. Peter, where can, uh, where can people find out more about you?  

So if you, uh, if you go to my PMH. com, uh, you can find more information about what we do, how we help organizations, our people centric approach. Um, and, uh, find out more about, uh, all these events that we're putting together for 2025.

Exciting stuff. And then, you know, you're just a humble guy, but I'd love to see you in some camo colored Crocs on one of these events. 

That's it. I don't know about the 

Crocs. You might get me in some, in some, uh, some, uh, waiters or maybe some boots or something, but I don't know about the Crocs.  

Yeah. Crocs are one of those ones. Maybe they, uh, you know, it's like bell bottoms. They should have died the first time. 

But, uh, no, I appreciate you being on today, Peter. Is there anything, any last words you'd like to have?  

No, just thank you for the opportunity. Uh, you are as, as you know, but I'd like for anyone that listens to this to also know you are a wealth of knowledge and you're one of those friends that I keep in my close circle that I know has got a lot of experience and someone that I look up to.

So I appreciate the opportunity and I always appreciate your guidance and your suggestions and directions. So. Yeah. If, uh, anyone that is not already listening to your podcast regularly, uh, they, they need to. 

Yeah. I appreciate that. You, uh, our, our friendship means the world to me. So I appreciate your time today and obviously sharing your experience with us today.

Thanks, Peter. 

Thanks for listening. We'll be back next time to cut through the noise of what it really takes to be a successful entrepreneur. 

If today's episode hit home, share it with a friend and be sure to subscribe. So you don't miss the next one.